Orbán’s Tusványos speech could not be held in the United Kingdom – Matt Goodwin for Mandiner

Hungary is unique in that it staunchly fights against the forced liberal project – says Matt Goodwin. The British political scientist was interviewed at the MCC Festival about the future of conservatives, Brexit, and Viktor Orbán.

What do you think of Viktor Orbán’s politics? Hungary is considered a conservative country in the United Kingdom, engaged in political conflict with the European Union. I think most people don’t really understand the nature of this conflict. The British elite often portray Hungary as violating EU laws, regulations, and norms. However, I believe their country is simply resisting the pressure from a narrow minority of Western countries representing the liberal project. Hungary is unique in strongly fighting against issues such as the Ukrainian war, gender ideology, or critical race theory, all rooted in left-wing liberalism. Of course, other Central European countries are also doing this. Liberals see Viktor Orbán as a problematic, hostile figure. Today, in academic literature, all this is seen as problematic populism, although among Hungarians, it is quite popular. It’s worth mentioning that since the 2016 Brexit referendum, there has been a presumption that other EU member states may consider leaving. Some British conservatives argued that the EU should shrink with the departure of some peripheral states. Perhaps they hoped for support from France, the Netherlands, or Hungary, states that understood the essence of euroskepticism that led to Brexit. Since Brexit, we are much less interested in EU issues. If you ask an average person on the streets of London what they know about Hungary, you probably get the answer that it is a small country in Central Europe, with good wine, worth a weekend trip to Budapest, but they won’t understand Hungarian politics.

We are working to make the University of Buckingham the first openly woke-resistant university in the country.

Have you heard Viktor Orbán’s speech in Tusnádfürdő? This kind of perspective – let’s call it realistic – could not be expressed in the United Kingdom. Nigel Farage, the leader of the Reform UK party, recently stated that we need a peace agreement with Ukraine, we need to end the armed conflict, and talk about the conditions for peace. Liberal internationalists, who would continue the war without seeing its end, its possible outcome, widely criticized this. In the United Kingdom, no major party leader would make such a speech. Moreover, the Hungarian Prime Minister exceptionally well understands global events, few politicians at home see this so clearly. I believe Orbán is fundamentally misunderstood as a political figure.

What do you think? There is not much substantive debate about international issues today. And if you violate the social-liberal orthodoxy, you will become problematic. If you don’t believe in mass immigration, in breaking down national borders, if you don’t believe in the deconstruction of biological sex, and don’t favor gender identities, you are often in opposition.

Why did the conservatives lose the British election, and why by such a large margin? There are some lessons here for the Hungarian conservatives. In the British election, voters mainly punished the conservatives for mass immigration and losing control of the borders because they broke their promises. In 2019, they committed to curbing general migration and taking back control. This was the big promise of Brexit. But let’s not forget, the British conservatives are liberal conservatives, not like the Hungarians, they are real conservatives. 130,000 people entered the UK illegally, mostly from Afghanistan, Syria, Sudan, Muslim countries. The British conservatives avoided the steps necessary to regain control, such as leaving the European Convention on Human Rights, reforming human rights law, and drastically reducing legal immigration. The Conservative Party provided a textbook lesson on what not to do as a conservative. If I were a Hungarian conservative, looking at the UK, I would say: if we liberalize like the British, we will lose.

You also talk and write about the reorganization of British politics. You claim that a significant part of the base of the left and the Tories will swap, the elites will be leftist, the working class conservative. If we look at Donald Trump and the Republicans, we can see that the reorganization is imminent. Why? Because they advocate strengthening the southern border, containing woke ideology, addressing working-class Americans, standing up to China, embedding the principle of national preference in the economy. I think the conservatives in the United Kingdom made a mistake here. They inherited working-class voters, those who didn’t go to university, and after Brexit became culturally conservative. And what did they give these voters? The opposite of what they promised. The result was the lowest mandate in conservative history: 120 seats. Support did not massively increase for the left in this election. Since 1997, the Labour Party has won the largest majority, but with the lowest proportion since the 1880s. So the collapse on the right was so deep that the left won big even with not outstanding support. The conservatives were not conservative enough.

How do you see the future of the party? An ideological-philosophical civil war is starting for the soul of British conservatism. What is conservatism in today’s United Kingdom? Liberal conservatism, which is comfortable with immigration, weak borders, indoctrinating our children, and adopting leftist rhetoric? Or rather national conservatism, which wants to reduce immigration, regain border control, restore the honor of labor, and rebuild the economy? This is the debate going on today, with the Tories on one side and Nigel Farage and a few dissatisfied British conservatives, writers, and intellectuals on the other. This will be the focus of discussion in the next six months to a year. If the conservatives make the wrong decision, they will go down the liberal path. Nigel Farage, whom Viktor Orbán knows from their time in the European Parliament, has never received as many mandates for his party as he did now. It is important to mention the figure of Roger Scruton and his popularity in Hungary: the esteemed philosopher at your place was not known and read by most of today’s British conservative representatives, although he was a significant political figure. He had a great influence on Viktor Orbán. Scruton was famously skeptical of neoliberal conservatism. He called for a return to the concept of home, the national community. He emphasized looking at our homeland as our home – he called this oikophilia.

But Scruton was marginalized in his own country. What we see in the United Kingdom now is the denial of our home. We deny what makes us British. This is reflected more than ever in today’s political class. They want to redefine the problematic national identity. They hate the white British majority, and through migration, they denigrate and erode our community. They label people as extreme right-wing in relation to riots. They subject our children to a political experiment. If anyone, Scruton would not be surprised by the collapse of the conservatives: he foresaw what would follow. He would be horrified by today’s Labour government, as it takes all the steps he opposed: restricts free speech, ends border controls, raises private school fees, lowers the voting age to 16. It’s like a Scrutonian nightmare. Perhaps it’s better that he didn’t have to experience all this. That’s why we need conservative writers, thinkers, and the new generation of intellectuals to spread national conservative ideas. If we don’t work to move conservatism in the right direction in the United Kingdom, it will really be over.

What we see in the United Kingdom now is the denial of our home. We deny what makes us British.

You hold a not very accepted position in the Western academic sphere. Do you face backlash for this? In the eight years since Brexit, British universities have been under attack by increasingly militant radical progressivism. There have been numerous notable cases. They did not invite psychologist Jordan Peterson to Cambridge, philosopher Kathleen Stock lost her job at the University of Sussex, sociologist Noah Carl was fired from the University of Cambridge, and political professor Eric Kaufmann was expelled from Birkbeck. The question of academic freedom is becoming more urgent. Since the 1960s, the ratio of left-wing and right-wing academics has grown from 3:1 to 10:1. Universities have become monocultural, deeply intolerant and hostile to non-conformists and those who question gender ideology, support Brexit, and challenge the notion that the legacy of the British Empire is entirely negative. Recently, a group of academics submitted a law on higher education freedom of speech that imposes legal requirements on universities to promote and protect freedom of speech. For example, if someone were fired for their political views, a fine would be imposed on the institution. If they don’t invite a speaker just because they find them controversial, they could also be fined. The Parliament passed the law, but the government has already announced that they will review it, essentially meaning they will drop the whole thing. If they do this, it will be another attack on academic freedom and freedom of speech. This is one reason why I am trying to strengthen the relationship with the MCC from the University of Buckingham’s side. Together with my friend and professor Eric Kaufmann, we are working to make this the first openly woke-resistant university in the United Kingdom. We collaborate with the MCC to bring Hungarian students and teachers to the country, and young British conservatives to come to Budapest. If we are serious about saving Western freedom of speech, we need to connect the MCC with the University of Buckingham, the Peterson Academy, the University of Austin, Substack blogs, YouTube channels, Unherd magazine, and others. We need to create an alternative ecosystem that is capable of cultivating new generations.

Left-wing academics constantly write about the so-called illiberal takeover of Hungarian higher education. Well, that’s how they see it. Anything that is not left-wing is illiberal in their minds. Ironically, liberals are illiberal. But we already knew this, there is nothing new in this.